text | un: Sasaki

[ex_adept136]

[Haise has talked with several teammates about the lack of cohesion, and how difficult it is for all of them to coordinate. It was something he'd meant to discuss, or perhaps encourage others better suited, to bring up when they had some down-time. In the wake of a rather heated debate he chose to sat out on, he thinks maybe conversations about how they unify can't wait]

It seems that some of us may be feeling a little hot under the collar after recent events. Since I am an advocate for mercy, and am only alive because as much was extended to me when others may have argued against it, I don't want to touch on moral disagreements. Our stances will naturally differ, because our organization doesn't give us any unifying principles to abide by.

As a member of the CCG, I had very set guidelines to follow. Those weren't all things I agreed with, or felt right about. But they did maintain order, and did keep people safe. They made us an effective team, and more than once it's come up with colleagues here that we might benefit from that.

This was something I'd hoped might come up on Oska, when people had time to relax, but considering the circumstances...

Would any of you be interested in opening that discussion? That is, talking about our backgrounds, where we're coming from, and what we believe. If we start there, surely we can find a way to work together. If we're constantly at odds with one another, that isn't good for anyone. When I first joined, that division was certainly in place, but those I disagreed with still took the time to speak with me, and we did have common ground. I'd like to suggest that, as a team, we try to find that...for all our sakes.

Edit: Although I spoke of my own background in the example I provided, by no means am I suggesting that everyone do the same. Most importantly, we need to establish where we stand on issues we're often confronted with in our line of work. These things would inevitably show in our actions, so speaking on personal matters is not necessary for discussion.
What each of us believes and what course we're inclined to take is what I mean to inquire about.

[ooc: Naturally, thread-hop/jack as desired]

Comments

text | un: Sasaki

[ex_adept136]

To accompany the above, I'll try to start us off with an example. For those who don't know me, I'm Haise Sasaki. I come from one of various iterations of Earth, in which humans deal with a predatory species known as ghouls. Unlike folklore from other worlds, ghouls look human enough, but differ in their biology. The organization to which I belong is the Commission of Counter-Ghoul, where I act as an investigator. My superior, Arima, is here as well.

[And also the one to whom he attributes the merciful act of sparing him]

Among our many guidelines is the expectation that we will exterminate ghouls. At the same time, we are to avoid causing unnecessary suffering. Those who know me will not be surprised that I prefer to take captives over lives, and the CCG has a tightly secured containment facility for this purpose. What may surprise others is that I have killed. Many times. In point of fact, I was awarded honors for the extermination of one hundred ghouls during a large-scale operation.

I'm accustomed to squads that number less than ten, which may be coordinated by a division responsible for monitoring battles during collective efforts. Although I served as mentor for the squad to which I have been assigned, I technically belong to another, under a superior. Rank is very prevalent, as is organization, so I've found my time here disorienting on occasion.

Personally, I've seen us divided on issues of taking and sparing lives from my earliest days in ALASTAIR about a year ago. It's important enough for us to have strong opinions about, and I don't think that's wrong. But I do want to find a way to work together and support one another, and better use our skills and abilities.

Among the skills I can use in service of the team are my experience as an investigator, hand-to-hand combat, and swordsmanship. In the case of the last, Arima exceeds me. My body heals swiftly and is impervious to normal bullets and blades, so I'm often on the front lines. By virtue of my time in ALASTAIR, I've been granted magic that allows me to heal wounds and repair broken objects, although I'm unsure where my limits are.

I don't believe there's any one way to talk about ourselves, but I hope this will be a start.

private

[p66]

You've taken a great leap, Haise-san. Is this really okay?

[ex_adept136]

I don't know yet whether it's a good idea, or if people will be open to talking, but...

It wouldn't be right to ask for something I wasn't willing to give, myself.

[p66]

That's true too.

We'll have to trust each other to not use the information irresponsibly. I have faith but eighty people is really a large group.

[ex_adept136]

I know. While I'm not proud of having ended so many lives...it speaks to what I've done when it was deemed necessary. It seems to me that some consider mercy a weakness, and perhaps in saying this, others will understand why I believe it to be a strength.

At the same time, it also shows what I'm capable of, I suppose. I think I've given the impression to many that I am too soft for such things.

[p66]

You have a strong heart. I think that's what counts.

I'm not sure if I can share much things, since Julius is very secretive and I have to respect his opinion. But maybe sharing simple stuff like interests might help?

[ex_adept136]

That's kind of you to say.

I don't think anyone necessarily needs to reveal as much as I did. To be honest, there's a great deal more I could say but didn't consider necessary. Even basic information could give people an idea of what your perspective and experience is, and I think we need to know that about each other.

audio; un:hound

[ofobedience]

I still don't believe that preserving life at any cost is a mercy. It was different, perhaps, in Woodhurst. But not with those who's minds had been hollowed out by the Taxara.

[His voice is cool and even, without heat.]

Allowing those people to live was a mistake, in my opinion.

[ex_adept136]

[It's a familiar disagreement, one for which Haise hasn't any bite in him either]

I suppose I would rather give someone a chance and be wrong than make a decision prematurely... But as I said, I benefited from another's good graces. I'd have thought ALASTAIR would have detainment facilities at least on-par with my own world, but that doesn't appear to be so.

[Although what he calls good graces...well. Arima "killed" Kaneki, and here he is in the wake of his past self, who could not endure the psychological pain heaped atop the physical. Not that he knows the details]

Having said that, the results are what they are, and we have to deal with them.

[ofobedience]

[It's an odd subject, somewhat difficult perhaps, considering that - more and more - he's come to see Haise as someone who's company he can endure. More than endure, for all that it's still a difficult thing to put into concrete form.

He's still unwilling to use words like 'friend', even in his own thoughts, regardless of the fact that he wouldn't deny it were the word presented to him by another.]

At the risk of sounding repetitive, it seems too big a gamble to take. Something else might emerge from the mindlessness those people have been forced into, but it won't be them. They won't be what they were. It's not the kind of existence one would willingly choose, I don't think.

[He wouldn't choose it. Even if something should emerge in his place, when his mind dissolves into nothing, it won't be him. All those precious memories that are dark-edged and ugly yes but still have something bright at their centre, still have meaning to him-- they'd be lost forever. Lily. Heine. Arthur. Lott. All of it, gone. He can't think of anything worse.]

But as you say, here we are, and we have this mess to clean up because of it. Not that I'm complaining on that count. I'm only hoping that, this time, people won't mistake their own need to assuage their guilt as mercy.

[ex_adept136]

It's hard to say who'd be best equipped to make that determination for them...unless they'd stated their will beforehand.

[They both know that Haise is something else that emerged. He's not Kaneki, and he never will be. The day he remembers is the day he ceases to exist, because those memories never belonged to him, and it's the feeling that crowds over him whenever he considers the notion.

But by the same token, they both know what decision Giovanni has made, on the other end of that expanse of losing one's memory. It's his acknowledgement of that, and of the fear of not knowing what might come, that he'd offered to carry out the man's will were it necessary.

He dearly hopes it never will be, but as he's said... He's taken many lives]

For my part, it wasn't guilt...but I would find it difficult to explain. [And he expects Giovanni knows why he'd be ill-equipped to articulate it, after past exchanges] As it stands, now we know that ALASTAIR can't hold prisoners. That, despite the unfortunate circumstances, is valuable information for the future.

[ofobedience]

[The two of them, their conflicting opinions on this issue-- it's a case of unstoppable force meets immovable object, and whilst Giovanni can fully comprehend why Haise would believe the people from Perdition's Rest deserve a chance to become something else, he can't agree with it. Wouldn't want anything to happen to the man he's come to know, and yet still wonders over the person he'd been before, how he would have felt about Haise emerging in his place.

But the others here, or at least the majority of them, they don't have either experience to draw from, and as such Giovanni believes they are ill-equipped to have made such a decision. It still sits badly with him, even now. Probably always will.]

Not guilt on your part, no, but the same can't be said for the others. Or a misplaced sense of morality, perhaps, the belief that life is something sanctified, something to be prolonged no matter the circumstances. I suppose what they have no understanding of is that some things are far worse than death. It frustrates me, I'll admit. Hahah.

[But here they are, and the decision stands. He's aware he's in the minority, for all that he continues to believe he's right.]

And yes, I'd say it's something worth bearing in mind for the future, ALASTAIR's inability to keep prisoners properly contained. Perhaps they'll be more willing to see outside of their own limited perspectives, next time.

[ex_adept136]

[Haise won't claim that he knows exactly what Giovanni feels, if only because the factors at play for him are the opposite. One of them dreads remembering and the other dreads forgetting...though in the end, erasure would be the result for both of them as they are now. It's a frightening thing, and he knows that their positions are rather unique among the ranks. Perhaps even beyond that.

Having lived the sort of existence Giovanni seems to have, surely it would be frustrating, that others couldn't understand. Couldn't grasp or truly fathom, at times, despite best efforts]

You know, back home... Before missions, we write a will. [Bleak to some, perhaps, and yet—] I've begun to think there was some sense in it.

[He won't deny some things are worse than dying. It's easy to think of a few, and they vary from one person to another. Some, no doubt, would be recurring themes]

We all need to understand each other better, if we're going to be effective. Well, that and awareness of our resources, or lack thereof. It's something we'll have to bear in mind. I could afford to spare lives when I did because I knew they'd be securely detained without fail. And in those cases, they were my responsibility.

audio;

[hedonistic]

[He missed Perdition's Rest, but he's done enough lurking by now to have the gist of that situation, and well--]

I also gotta wonder how those people whose pre-slug selves are basically dead would feel about the idea of hurting or killing the people who were trying to help them and literally never knowing about it even if their bodies survive the de-slugging. But I'm sure nobody gives a fuck about that.

text; un: anonymous

[skelepun]

idle curiosity here, but you asked many of 'em?

[hedonistic]

are we talking about the de-slugged or audentes here

[skelepun]

audies

[hedonistic]

i mean
look at this post + kazbrekker's

it's filled with "but we had to try to help them tho"
"it's not our fault oska's security was bad"

etc

nobody's really talking about what they'd want or how they'd feel if they had known what was happening
u don't have to be fucking braindead to be better off dead, u kno
sometimes being alive just isn't fucking worth it


[He'd rather die than go back to the isolation facility, that's for fucking sure.]

audio;

[ofobedience]

One has to wonder. But you're right-- it doesn't seem many here are willing to consider it, too concerned with preserving life no matter the outcome or the cost to those they insist that they're saving.

[When his own memories decay into nothing he's aware of what's likely to happen to him, to become canon fodder, a mindless meatshield, one of the faceless dog soldiers who'll be thrown away without a second thought. It sickens him to think of it-- and while he isn't exactly the most moral of the bunch, cares little for those around him, in this instance he can understand the trauma that could await these people, capable of forming new memories as they are. That they'd once been someone, that they'd lost it all, that they were used as tools and had done things they would never wish to do. Surely it deserves some consideration.]

They all talk of mercy, but sometimes living is far more painful than the alternative.

text | un: Arima

[prodigism]

[ Sup son, dad here to feel guilty about some of the things Haise has mentioned in his post. He still replies to it however, not in voice but in text. He agrees with most of what Haise says of course finding a common ground among everyone is just an ideal that can never really be fulfilled. ]

Allowing the Taraxa infected people to live was a mistake. Hopefully we can learn from this in the future. I don't think keeping them alive is an option anymore.

[ Honestly if there's no cure and no way to really help them then the whole point is moot. Especially now that they're going on the attack and trying to harm those of ALASTAIR. ]

[ex_adept136]

[As much as Haise might wish he could argue this point, he isn't sure he can anymore. It's one thing to believe that any captives would be securely detained, but now they know that isn't true. If they're just jeopardizing others, they're risking at least as many as they're helping.

And gentle as he may be in nature, he knows better than to think that's a favorable balance]

How unfortunate that they have no facility comparable to Cochlea.
Who would have thought their security would be like this...

[prodigism]

Their knowledge on this has been known for being faulty. It's not surprising that their security is as well.

[ After all strong security requires knowledge. ]

There's not telling what we'll face when we get back there. But saving everyone isn't going to be possible at this rate.

[ex_adept136]

It doesn't appear that way, no. But then, since my earliest mission, it never was.

[He still finds it a bitter pill to swallow, for all that it's the same reality he's always been faced with]

[prodigism]

[ Haise...please don't be sad. He knows this is a hard thing for him, it always has been. ]

It's a difficult concept to accept, I understand. But for something like this it's best to try and save those that are known allies.

[ He hated killed as well, even if Haise doesn't know that much yet. His dying breath and his last words spoken made it abundantly clear however. ]

We'll just have to try our best to aim for the best possible outcome.

[ex_adept136]

You're right.

[Of course he is. Haise wishes that the world were a kinder place — that the universe was, for that matter. But at least it's nothing new.

Their world was no less harsh]

Shame we aren't better equipped though.