text | un: Sasaki

[ex_adept136]

[Haise has talked with several teammates about the lack of cohesion, and how difficult it is for all of them to coordinate. It was something he'd meant to discuss, or perhaps encourage others better suited, to bring up when they had some down-time. In the wake of a rather heated debate he chose to sat out on, he thinks maybe conversations about how they unify can't wait]

It seems that some of us may be feeling a little hot under the collar after recent events. Since I am an advocate for mercy, and am only alive because as much was extended to me when others may have argued against it, I don't want to touch on moral disagreements. Our stances will naturally differ, because our organization doesn't give us any unifying principles to abide by.

As a member of the CCG, I had very set guidelines to follow. Those weren't all things I agreed with, or felt right about. But they did maintain order, and did keep people safe. They made us an effective team, and more than once it's come up with colleagues here that we might benefit from that.

This was something I'd hoped might come up on Oska, when people had time to relax, but considering the circumstances...

Would any of you be interested in opening that discussion? That is, talking about our backgrounds, where we're coming from, and what we believe. If we start there, surely we can find a way to work together. If we're constantly at odds with one another, that isn't good for anyone. When I first joined, that division was certainly in place, but those I disagreed with still took the time to speak with me, and we did have common ground. I'd like to suggest that, as a team, we try to find that...for all our sakes.

Edit: Although I spoke of my own background in the example I provided, by no means am I suggesting that everyone do the same. Most importantly, we need to establish where we stand on issues we're often confronted with in our line of work. These things would inevitably show in our actions, so speaking on personal matters is not necessary for discussion.
What each of us believes and what course we're inclined to take is what I mean to inquire about.

[ooc: Naturally, thread-hop/jack as desired]

Comments

text; un: zenyatta

[iomnic]

This is a wonderful idea you have, Haise. I know some do not agree with it, but I believe our honesty with who we are, and how we feel about the situations we've been handed will help us out overall.

I am Tekhartha Zenyatta, an omnic, and a monk. Omnics are essentially "robots" as you from other worlds may know of, but we are... different. We are not just A.I. beings- we have thoughts of our own, intelligence, sentience... souls.

As a monk, I am an advocate for mercy as well, in most situations. But I also will not stand for the harming of innocents, and if a reaction is needed, then it will be provided. Our problems stem from our inability to foresee how our actions will have repercussions. I do not believe we made the wrong choice overall. We had attempted to save lives, and we had. We could not have accounted for their escape, and sabotage. To say that we should have simply killed innocent lives because it might come back to hurt us, then we should ask ourselves, what is the point in saving any lives at all? Every mission has this potential.

On another note, as one might think, I am slightly at odds with how I feel on our enemy sending in a robotic army. We are not there yet, and so I have no information on the details of their presence. But I am quite troubled at the potential they may also have a level of sentience I find on par with my own.

audio; un: hound

[ofobedience]

The problem is, we weren't saving lives in this instance. Those people were already something worse than dead. What's the point of preserving a life when all that remains of it is a hollowed-out empty husk of what an individual used to be?

[He says it coolly enough, calmly, unlike his reactions during Perdition's Rest. But the fact is it's still a subject that slides beneath his skin like a parring knife, cuts into him in a very personal way.]

Preserving live at any cost doesn't sound much like mercy, to me.

un: fiona

[cachemoney]

[a minor interjection] Huh. NTS: find out if Cassie meant "saving a lot of them" meant they're not amnesiacs, wow, I should have asked.

[ofobedience]

As far as I'm aware, their minds were unsalvageable. Though if you find information to the contrary, I'd like to know, and would retract my opposition.

[His morals would remain deeply skewed, yes, a retraction of his opposition meaning only that he wouldn't care one way or another what happened to those people, would assist the team in further rescues if they asked it of him only because its the will of the majority. But his bonedeep horror and disgust over preserving the lives of those he believes to be better off dead would at least be assuaged.]

[cachemoney]

Right, after they got deslugged. Maybe support staff figured out how to do it better? It's not super clear.

But I'll let you know 👍

[ofobedience]

Please, do.

[It would make a difference, after all.]

[iomnic]

I was under the impression that they were not vessels without conscious thought. If they were, then I agree with you. But I believe even an individual who loses their memory has the capacity to make more, and still be whole.

[ofobedience]

Then I suppose we disagree on that count. What's the point in living if you've lost everything that makes you what you are? Everything that ever mattered to you?

[ALASTAIR may have halted the process for him,but the moment he returns to his own world he knows what fate awaits him. Would much rather die with some part of himself left in tact. Heine, Lily, all of them-- without his memories of them he has nothing at all!.]

[iomnic]

I can see memories hold great importance to you. This is understandable.

I am of the opinion that memories are more fluid. They are not the sole indicator of a personality, or a person's worth. New memories can be made, and either reconciled with an old life, or started fresh. For an Omnic, there is always the potential of losing one's memories- a surge of magnetic force and I would not remember my own name. But I would hope that I would not be considered a lost cause, at that point. I believe that, if there are any survivors from the ordeal happening in Oska, even if they had lost their memories, they would not wish for death.

That is why I feel the way I do.

how did that exclamation mark get in there ;;

[ofobedience]

Perhaps new memories can be made, for some. For these people I'm aware that it's a possibility. But they've still lost everything, and who are any of us to know how much meaning these people attributed to the things they have lost? You can't know that they would not wish for death, and now they're beyond asking. On top of which, even should new memories form, they have to live with the knowledge that they'd once been something else, were used for a purpose that may revolt them. I can only see it as a cruelty.

And I know, for myself, that death would be preferable.

[But then, his memories - bleak as they are, cruel as they are - are the only thing that has ever belonged to him. His life is not his own, and so it has no great importance, but those fleeting moments of feeling as though there were people to whom he mattered-- they're everything.]

text; un: reika

[p66]

I heard that the people were meant to be studied to find a way to detect Taraxa in other people as well.

[ofobedience]

Which only makes it all the more repellant. To become an empty shell of yourself, only to be kept alive for the purpose of study.

[Again, the cool calm voice, though internally something twists in him, painful and hot. All of this-- it just cuts too close to the bone for comfort.]

[p66]

[ There is no reply since she doesn't intend to hold a conversation about morality. In fact she's quite at a loss of what to do to begin with. ]

[ex_adept136]

That's kind of you to say. I can only hope that this might be a step in a positive direction for us, though as others have reminded me, we have a lot of work ahead of us. Having such a very large team is quite the challenge, in its way.

It's true that we have no way to foresee these outcomes. Even with the Timeline program, this situation still caught Oska by surprise...

I've inquired regarding their weaponry, but I'll see what our senior in Kittypaw has to say about them beyond that. Maybe we can at least get an idea of whether there's a potential, so we can have an informed perspective.

[iomnic]

As I have said to Fiona, coming to a conclusion that we can all agree on, preemptive to experiencing the mission itself, is an impossible task. Due to the nature of these missions, and the fact we are essentially... at war, there will not be a definite right or wrong answer.

Thank you for inquiring to Cassie. If her assessment is correct, then I would certainly like the chance to try and speak to these robots.

[ex_adept136]

I can't disagree. In my experience, having general policies helps, but I'm accustomed to rather strict guidelines, and my world doesn't involve nearly as many variable circumstances as hopping around the universe does. I'd like to think we could arrive at a few general points, but that would bear quite a bit of discussion.

Would you aim to take captives then, or do you mean when we arrive you'll try? If you need back up in the event that they can't be reasoned with, I could tag along.

[iomnic]

It will be my first order of business. I have arranged to have Knock Out present, as well. But his methods will be... a back-up plan.

[Since it consists of dissection.]

But considering how potentially dangerous they are, I think a third pair of hands may be wise to have. I will first want to access if they are too dangerous to be around organic beings, even if they are subdued.

[He knows you said you're okay against bullets and blades, but these guys have lasers, apparently.]

text; un: anonymous

[skelepun]

a monk, huh? man, dimensional rifts really knew what they were doing, dragging people like you into all this.

[iomnic]

I do not think of it as being "dragged" but rather, that I have been brought here for a purpose.

[skelepun]

the whole everything happens for a reason bit?

[iomnic]

Yes.

text; un: redlion

[secondnature]

If they're sentient, we should stop them, right?

That means they're doing this of their own free will.

[iomnic]

We should stop them, regardless of the case.

[As in stop and not destroy necessarily.]

But if they are cognizant of what they are doing, then I believe they could be reasoned with. After all- if an organic lifeform can be misinformed, then a robot can be as well.

[secondnature]

After what we saw with Percy, do we really think they'll be misinformed?

[iomnic]

If you always assume, you will only find what you expect to.